home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Frequently Asked Questions (FAQS);faqs.395
-
-
-
- (3) CURRENT EQUIPMENT CONFIGURATION -
-
- With equipment-related questions, it is helpful for the
- respondent to know how any suggested new equipment will complement an
- existing setup.
-
- "I own two rusty cans and 100 yds of twine."
- "I own a JX-3P, M1, and D70 for synths, and a Tascam PortaPotty
- 4-track."
-
- (4) WHAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH -
-
- Defining what your particular goals are is *critical* for any
- respondent to give personalized advice. Besides, goal-definition also
- happens to be the most critical activity that *you* can do to focus
- your search through the the maze of information and equipment that is
- out there.
-
- "I want to just have fun in my basement studio, writing pop tunes
- for my own enjoyment and distributing them to my friends."
- "I want to write soundtracks for local TV productions."
- "I want to produce demo tapes of my band and send them to record
- companies."
- "I want to optimize my rig for live performance of industrial music."
-
- (5) BUDGET -
-
- For most of the people on this planet, budget is a key
- constraint. If you have a precise figure in mind, give it. If you're
- trying to get a more general sense of what things cost versus their
- capabilities, that's O.K. too, but you should still be able to
- provide a *range* of $$ figures that you would be willing to consider.
- Obviously, defining your budget goal will help respondents restrict
- the range of products considered and discussed. And if you're close
- to a boundary, they will often say "of course, with just $X more you
- could step up to a ..."
-
- "I have between $300-500 bucks to spend on a reverb unit."
- "I am willing to spend up to $2000 on a new keyboard if it will
- allow me to do X,Y, and Z; but I'd prefer to keep it under
- $1500."
-
-
- ---
-
- 1.0) [Newcomer questions]
-
- ---
-
- 1.1) What keyboard should I buy?
-
- Answer:
-
- From: xrjdm@calvin.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joseph D. McMahon)
- Subject: Re: That zany FAQ thing
- Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 11:01:10 EDT
-
-
- The most frequently asked question on EMUSIC-L and on rec.music.synth is
- probably "What keyboard should I buy?"
-
- Before you do anything else, indulge in some self-analysis of what you want
- to do, how committed you are to doing it, and how much money you have to
- spend on it. If you plan just to play your keyboard every once in a while for
- fun, you will have a different set of requirements from someone who is looking
- for the first piece of equipment along the road to establishing a professional
- set of gear as the nucleus of a studio. Persons who are going to be performing
- contemporary popular music or who wish to imitate traditional instruments will
- probably find any number of keyboards which will fit their needs.
- Experimentalists, or persons wishing to do sonic exploration, with the sound
- being the primary concern, will have a harder time. In general, keyboard which
- feature extensive modulation sources and routings (such as the Oberheim
- Xpander, Kurzweil K2000, or Ensoniq SD-1) will be more useful for synthesis
- than less complex machines.
-
- Set your musical priorities: must-have, highly-desirable, nice, don't care,
- etc. Acoustic sounds? Synth sounds? Multi-timbral? Built-in sequencer?
- Built-in effects (reverb, etc)? After-touch? # of keys? You'll probably need
- to get more familiar with the terminology before you can make any decisions
- here. A few terms for those new to this:
- a) Multi-timbrality means that the keyboard can produce more
- than one sound at a time. For most people who will be
- purchasing only one synth the first time out, this is
- very important. A monotimbral (one-sound-at-a-time)
- machine will require the use of multi-track tape to
- simulate multi-timbrality. Commonly available used
- synths which are mono-timbral are the Yamaha DX7 and the
- Roland D50. You will not be able to make these keyboards
- sound like more than one thing at once.
- b) A built-in sequencer (on modern machines) means
- that the keyboard has the equivalent of a built-in
- multi-track tape machine; it records the events that
- occur and allows you to play them back. It is *not* an
- audio device; it simply records the actions you take to
- produce a piece of music and then plays them back again,
- like a player-piano. If you have a computer, you may
- want to purchase a MIDI (see below) interface and a
- software sequencer instead.
- d) Most synthetic sounds are more pleasing with at least a little
- bit of effects (echo, reverberation, etc.). Some keyboards
- have built-in effects; others require external ones. Note that
- built-in effects usually require that all voices go through the
- same effect; if there is an alternative, it is usually "no effects".
- This means that is you have a distorted guitar, an organ with a
- rotating speaker effect, and a lead with just a touch of reverb,
- you are going to have to choose which two of the three effects
- you are going to be able to live without, because only one will
- be available at a time.
- e) After-touch is a means of controlling the sound after you've
- pressed the key. For most keyboards, pressing on any one
- key while holding a chord will cause all of the sounding
- notes to act as if they too had been pressed harder; this
- is called "channel aftertouch". Other let you control this
- individually for each key; this is called "key aftertouch
- and is not seen as often.
- f) The number of keys varies. In general, most have 61 keys
- (5 octaves), but others have more, all the way up to a full 88.
- People who already play the piano will probably be more
- comfortable on a larger keyboard. The feel also varies,
- from weighted actions which feel very piano-like, through
- mushy, unweighted ones are more common.
- f) MIDI is short for "musical instrument digital interface". It
- is an international standard, and almost all machines built
- after the Yamaha DX7 have it. (Nit-picky note: some built
- before to,, but the DX7 is a good reference point.) You can
- buy a MIDI interface for your home computer and run software
- to control your keyboards from there. MIDI is often used to
- build a studio in much the same way that you can build a
- stereo system: by choosing individual components and combining
- them into a whole.
-
- A good basic checklist for "pro-quality" keyboards:
-
- - Sound quality. If it sounds lousy at the store, it'll sound
- bad at home. If you're having trouble hearing because of the
- 57 guitar heroes flailing Strats nearby, see if you can take
- it "on approval". Most dealers are willing to work with you
- on such things. If all else fails, rent one. Spending $40 to find
- out that the $2500 you were going to spend would have been
- a waste is a good investment.
-
- - Usability. If the interface confuses you, if you don't like
- the layout of the modulators, if you really hate that joystick
- and want a wheel instead, or you think the operating system
- really sucks, don't commit to such a keyboard unless you're
- willing to deal with this. Small dissatisfactions can turn what
- you thought was "okay" into "unusable" after repeated fighting
- with them. Software that locks up or crashes falls into this
- category.
-
- - Feel. If you're already a keyboard player, you probably
- have an ideal "good keyboard" feel in your "muscle memory".
- Try playing something you already know on the keyboard to
- see if it suits you. Keyboard feel ranges from organ-like,
- mushier feels to weighted, piano-like actions. If the keyboard
- has aftertouch, try it out and see if it's intuitive enough
- for you. Try out the modulation controllers (joystick,
- mod wheel, pedals, what have you) and see if they feel
- sturdy enough to stand up to some abuse. Try the buttons
- and sliders (and knobs and switches, if the keyboard has
- them) to make sure that they feel solid and dependable.
- If you're buying a used keyboard, check buttons to make
- sure they all work, and check sliders and knobs to make
- sure they track evenly through their full range.
-
- - Price. I waited to mention this here because if you hate the way
- it sounds, or can't stand to use it, it doesn't matter how much
- how much you saved. Don't talk yourself into a keyboard that
- doesn't satisfy you purely on monetary grounds. If you have to,
- wait.
-
- - Quality of manuals. Be sure to inquire if there are
- third-party books on programming or using the keyboard.
- You may want to buy a copy of the keyboard's documentation
- to review at home before making your final decision.
-
- - Number of voices and multitimbrality. This is essentially
- the number of simultaneous noises that your keyboard can
- make. In the case of a keyboard, polyphony (as interpreted by
- the marketing department) means "the number of different waveforms
- which can be produced at once". This is an important distinction
- to remember; many current keyboards will actually use more than
- one waveform simultaneously to produce the sound (usually called
- a "patch", referring to how older synthesizers were programmed
- with "patch cords"), which you hear when a single key is struck.
- For instance, if a keyboard has 32-voice polyphony and uses four
- simultaneous waveforms to produce a single note, the effective
- polyphony (in the first sense, "more than one note at once") is
- now only eight (eight notes * 4 waveforms/voice = 32 waveforms).
-
- This problem can be even worse for a multitimbral keyboard; these
- are commonly touted as being a complete composing and performing
- solution in a single box. However, attempting to produce an entire
- arrangement of a piece at once may very well exceed the effective
- polyphony very quickly. Multitimbral synths may be able to play
- several patches at once, but each note being played on a patch
- reduces the number of waveforms left to produce another note on
- any of the patches. For example, a standard drum track will
- typically use at least four (and possibly more) waveforms at
- some point: bass drum, snare, hi-hat, and ride cymbal. Remember
- that even if they all only come together at one sixteenth note,
- all of the voices will be required at once. Add in piano and
- several other voices, and you will be getting close to or
- exceeding the effective polyphony very quickly.
-
- When you exceed the number of waveforms that can be produced
- simultaneously, the keyboard will do one of two things: old
- (already-sounding) voices will have to be silenced to get
- waveforms for the new ones (this is called "voice stealing"),
- or the new notes simply won't sound until the old ones are
- released (this is less common). Some keyboards allow you to
- assign "priorities" to voices to determine which ones
- can be stolen from first. Others simply take the oldest voice
- and give its waveforms to the new note.
-
- You will have to determine the effective polyphony to decide
- whether a given keyboard has enough voices for you. This can be
- somewhat difficult. It is essential that you check this out
- hands-on. Play the sounds available in the store with as many
- fingers on the keys as you will use in normal playing for those
- sounds. If you like fat two-handed minor 11ths, you'll need a lot
- more polyphony than players who only play one or two notes at a time.
- If your playing isn't quite up to the challenge, try choosing a
- patch and paying a number of notes with the sustain pedal held
- down. See how the keyboard handles it when the polyphony is
- exceeded. Another good test is to hit a high note and then see
- how many low notes you can play before the high note disappears.
-
- - Many newer synths include built-in effects processing.
- See if it's possible to turn this off, or to route the
- signals so that they aren't processed. You may want to be
- able to process the sounds differently at a later date, so
- being able to not process them internally is useful. Try out
- the different effects and see if you like what they do. Again,
- remember that multitimbral keyboards will usually force you
- to choose a single effect (or none at all) for all of the
- voices.
-
- - Built-in sequencer. If you don't have a computer at home,
- or you'd prefer to spend more money on the keyboard and
- less on other things, consider a keyboard with a built-in
- sequencer. You should sit down and actually try to use it
- before springing for a keyboard on this basis; some are
- very difficult to use and fairly limited in function.
-
- - Availability of additional sounds. This may or may not be
- important to you. If you want to make your own sounds, look
- into the keyboard's voice architecture and programming. Get
- the salesperson to demonstrate if possible. If you find it
- confusing, you may find it difficult to program. If you want
- to purchase third-party sounds, talk to the dealer about what's
- available, and check out the ads in Keyboard magazine.
-
-
- You should never buy any keyboard without trying it. Ways to do this:
- talk to friends who own keyboards and get them to let you try them.
- Ask as many questions as you can think of. If a local junior or
- community college has a music lab, see what they've got and take some
- classes. Or go to a local dealer. It's better to at least see a
- keyboard once before asking about it on the discussion groups (SYNTH-L
- or rec.music.synth), simply because there are a lot of personal
- decisions to get out of the way first.
-
- Certainly, the music store is a good place to at least try keyboards.
- Try to hit the store when fewer people are likely to be there, like late
- afternoon around dinnertime, or early in the morning. A good salesperson
- won't be afraid to tell you that they don't have what you need, and won't
- push something on you as "really hot" without justification. He or she
- will also spend time talking to you about what you want to do and help
- steer you toward features on different machines that will be useful
- to you.
-
- Never let yourself be stampeded into buying X as soon as you walk in.
- If it's a legitimate deal, you will be able to come back later after
- you check with the competition. For this reason, it's usually not a
- good idea to buy a synth at a clearance sale or a "one-day-only"
- special unless you're already sure that it's what you want.
-
- Don't buy what it'll do "real soon now". Manufacturers are famous for
- advertising upgrades, new patches, and lots of other things that you
- can get right now that will "make it the most powerful synth available".
- Always treat any keyboard purchase as if the company were going to
- vanish tomorrow. You can only count on getting what you bought today
- (Metlay's Law). Sometimes you can't even count on that (Rothwell's
- Observation on Metlay's Law).
-
- There are lots of variations on the "promise", some more subtle than others.
- "Famous person X uses this," implying that you'll sound like X. Another one
- is the inflated specs game: "16-bit sounds!" "32-voice polyphony!". None of
- this makes the slightest bit of difference. If the sounds (or the potential)
- of this keyboard right here, right now, don't make you want to sit down and
- start writing music, the keyboard is worthless for you.
-
- If your committment to keyboard playing is low, you may want to either
- get a used keyboard, or to get a "consumer" multi-feature keyboard with
- built-in accompaniment, etc. If you're unsure as to whether you'll want
- to keep playing or not, you might want to consider purchasing a keyboard
- which has been on the market for a year or so, but which is still very
- popular. This will give you the chance to unload it used without taking
- a complete bath on the money you spent.
-
- If you are highly committed and motivated, and are planning to build a
- studio over a period of time, you should carefully review *all* of the
- synths available before making a choice. You may decide that a keyboard
- which you can't currently afford would be a better long-term choice than
- a different keyboard which doesn't meet your needs as well. Don't be
- afraid to wait and save up some money; if for no other reason than the
- heavy dependence on the music industry on them, electronic keyboards
- are not likely to suddenly disappear like video games did in the '80's.
-
- Once you've done the basic groundwork, and have narrowed the field a bit,
- post a message to one of the discussion groups and ask for experiences,
- and read reviews in Keyboard or Electronic Musician. Keyboard's reviews
- tend to gloss over problems less. In many cases, you will get conflicting
- recommendations; you will have to weigh these and your own experiences to
- come to a final decision.
-
- The final arbiter of your decision should always be you. You're the one
- who'll be spending a significant piece of cash and a lot of your time on this
- machine; it's to your advantage to find out as much as possible and to
- make sure that the machine you're buying is really one that you want and
- enjoy playing.
-
- (Thanks to Bob Crispen, Ross C., Kraig Eno, and Alan W. Kerr for suggestions.)
-
- --- Joe M. (xrjdm@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov)
-
-
- ---
-
- 1.2) Where can I get patches for my keyboard?
-
- Answer:
-
- Use anonymous ftp to
- ucsd.edu -- /midi/patches
- (current offerings include the Roland D10, D5, D50, D70, U20
- Yamaha DX7, FB01, TX81Z, SY22, SY55, SY77, Ensoniq ESQ1, SQ1,
- Kawai K1, K4, K5, Korg M1, T3, WS, Casio CZ-1, CZ-2)
-
- louie.udel.edu -- /pub/midi/patches
- (has patches for most of the above and several more,
- including E-mu Proteus, Korg 01/W, Ensoniq VFX, etc.)
-
- ---
-
- 1.3) What is MIDI?
-
- Answer:
- (adapted from xrjdm@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joseph D. McMahon)):
- MIDI stands for "Musical Instrument Digital Interface". It is an
- international standard which allows electronic keyboards, sound modules,
- effects boxes, and other equipment to send information to one another.
- Possibly the simplest use of the feature is when the MIDI OUT jack of
- one synthesizer is connected to the MIDI IN jack of another, allowing you
- to play both at the same time using just one keyboard.
-
- MIDI can carry much more than just notes, however; most MIDI-capable
- equipment will produce and respond to a variety of messages on the MIDI
- bus. Also, the proper interface hardware will allow a computer to
- control the musical equipment (see "EDITOR/LIBRARIAN" and "SEQUENCER").
-
- MIDI is often used to build a studio in much the same way that you can
- build a stereo system: by choosing individual components and combining
- them into a whole.
-
- The standard was instituted in 1987, and most keyboards after the Yamaha
- DX7 have it. (Nit-picky note: some built before do, too, but the DX7 is a
- good reference point.) It includes both a hardware standard (it's a
- 5 mA current loop carried on 3 wires, with 5-pin DIN connectors) and a
- serial communications protocol based on byte-oriented message packets
- running at 31.25 Kbaud.
-
- [for a more complete treatment of MIDI, see the item "Where
- can I find out all about MIDI?" -- Craig]
-
- ---
-
- 1.4) What are definitions for the following things?
- - aftertouch, envelope, FM, LFO, module,
- multitimbral, polyphony, pressure, sampler,
- sequencer, synthesizer, velocity
-
- Answer:
-
- "AFTERTOUCH" -- same as "pressure"
-
- "ENVELOPE"
-
- "FM" -- frequency modulation
-
- "LAYERING" -- see "MULTITIMBRAL"
-
- "LFO" -- Low-Frequency Oscillator
-
- "MIDI" -- Musical Instrument Digital Interface
-
- An international standard which allows communication between electronic
- music and lighting equipment from various manufacturers.
-
- "MODULE"
-
- "MULTITIMBRAL" -- capable of playing two or more timbres simultaneously
- From: awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Alan Kerr) (edited by K. Eno)
- Date: 5 Aug 92
- It means that there are multiple *timbres* on the machine: more than one
- different sound can play simultaneously. A machine that is mulitimbral
- *usually* will let you play those different sounds on different MIDI
- channels. "Layering" causes the synth to produce more than one sound when
- you press a single key; a "split" allows you to play one patch (a piano,
- perhaps) on one range of keys while you play a different sound (the bass)
- on another part of the keyboard.
-
- "POLYPHONY" -- number of simultaneously playable voices
- From: crispen <crispen@EFFTOO.BOEING.COM>
- Date: 4 Aug 92
-
- - Polyphony and multi-timbrality. The "polyphony" of a
- keyboard is the number of simultaneous notes that it can
- play. However, the polyphony advertised by the manufacturer
- is usually greater than the polyphony you'll actually get,
- especially with multi-timbral keyboards.
-
- Imagine that you have a 16-note polyphonic multi-timbral synth.
- If you have a multi-timbral sound that has two "raw" voices that
- sound simultaneously, you're down to 8 different notes that can
- sound at the same time (16 notes of polyphony divided by two
- voices). This is true even if the two voices are the same raw
- voice, but doubled to give a thicker sound. If you have four
- voices in the multi-timbral sound, you're down to four notes
- that can sound at once.
-
- The real question, then, is how many voices (on the average)
- this keyboard requires to make up a multi-voice sound that's
- useful. This will vary from one to four or more. A sampler,
- for example, may only require one voice to produce exactly the
- sound you want, while some kinds of synthesizer will take three
- or more voices before the sound is halfway decent.
-
- When you exceed the polyphony limit (and the rule is that you
- never have as much as you want) different keyboards handle the
- overflow differently; most turn off the "oldest" voice first;
- some allow you to set the way overflow is handled. Some quiet
- down the voice that's been turned off very subtly; others are
- noisy. Many newer keyboards have "dynamic voice allocation"
- (DVA) which allows you to guarantee a certain number of notes
- on each raw voice; when you exceed the polyphony limit, the
- keyboard will steal from other voices with lower guarantee
- numbers so that you get more notes, but each note sounds a
- little thinner because not all the voices are sounding.
-
- You *must* check this out hands-on. Play the multi-timbral
- sounds in the store with as many fingers on the keys
- as you will use in normal playing for those sounds. If you
- like fat two-handed minor 11ths, you'll need a lot more
- polyphony than players who only play one or two notes at a time.
-
- "PRESSURE" -- keyboard feature for sensing continuous key pressure
-
- Keyboards which are pressure-sensitive (or have "aftertouch", which
- is the same thing) can detect the amount of pressure on a key AFTER
- it has reached the end of its initial travel; this data can be used
- to vary the loudness or other characteristic of the sound, and usually
- sent as MIDI continuous controller messages as well.
-
- MONO pressure, also called "channel" pressure, detects the key that's
- pressed hardest; POLY pressure senses the individual amount for each
- separate key.
-
- "SAMPLER" -- a device for recording and playing back digitally
- recorded sounds (I know, I know, the Mellotron)
-
- "SEQUENCER" -- a musical event recorder
-
- "SPLIT" -- see "MULTITIMBRAL"
-
- "SYNTHESIZER" -- device for producing sound through analog or algorithmic means
-
- As generally used, a musical instrument which produces a sound signal
- by means of either analog electronics or real-time, algorithmic generation
- of a digital waveform. A variety of techniques are used:
-
- Additive synthesis
- Subtractive synthesis
- Ring Modulation synthesis
- Frequency Modulation synthesis
- Phase Distortion synthesis
-
- (But is a pipe organ a synthesizer? How about "real" instruments"?)
-
- "VELOCITY" -- keyboard feature for sensing how hard you initially play a note
-
- Velocity-sensitive keyboards detect how hard you play. Usually they do
- this by measuring how FAST a note is played -- that is, by measuring the
- delay between the initial strike and the time the key reaches the end of
- its travel.
-
- The information is usually used to determine the loudness of the note,
- but can also cause effects such as a faster attack or a shorter overall
- envelope, depending on the internal architecture of the sound generator.
-
-
- ---
-
- 1.5) Where can I get price lists?
-
- Answer:
-
- Ken Shirriff (shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu) posts a price list
- every two weeks in rec.music.synth. It is also available by anonymous
- ftp to sprite.berkeley.edu in the file synth_prices.
-
-
- ---
-
- 1.6) Where can I get a USA music store list?
-
- Answer:
-
- William J. Sequeira (pixel@ihlpe.att.com) posts such a list
- monthly to rec.music.synth.
-
- --crl
-
-
-
- 2.0) [Connectivity issues]
-
- ---
-
- 2.1) What is NetJam?
-
- Answer:
-
- NetJam provides a means for people to collaborate on musical
- compositions, by sending Musical Instrument Digital Interface (MIDI)
- and other files (such as MAX patchers and notated scores) to each
- other, mucking about with them, and resending them. All those with
- MIDI-compatible (and other interesting) equipment, access to emailing
- and compression facilities and to the Internet (send mail as below for
- details), and who are interested in making music are encouraged to
- participate.
-
- All participant and composition information is documented, and
- the most actions, such as subscription, submission, translation, and
- information distribution, are automated. NetJam is
- platform-independent, so users of Macintoshes, PCs, Amigas, Ataris,
- and machines running UNIX-variants may all communicate with each
- other. There are currently 134 participants, from all over the world.
-
- NetJam has branched out from its initial incarnation to
- support {soft/hard}ware other than sequencers. For example, many
- participants have access to several interesting sound synthesis
- programs, like CSound for the NeXT. In addition, NetJam archives
- sampler and MAX patcher data. Any data relating to art and music is
- fair game.
-
- Most NetJam activity takes place via email, in which
- participants collaborate at their own pace on works. Recently,
- however, a Wide-Area MIDI Network was implemented, so real-time
- interaction is now possible.
-
- Submissions, participant info, and other data is archived on
- xcf.Berkeley.EDU (128.32.138.1), where it is available via anonymous
- ftp. To receive the document from which this blurb is extracted (and
- which explains NetJam at length) send mail to netjam-request@xcf, with
- a subject line containing "request for info". Articles about NetJam
- have also appeared in the Computer Music Journal (15/3), and the
- Leonardo Music Journal (1/1).
-
- We look forward to hearing from you.
-
-
- Craig Latta
- musician and moderator
- latta@xcf.Berkeley.EDU
-
- ---
-
- 2.2) How do I subscribe to EMUSIC-D and EMUSIC-L, and what
- other BITNET lists are of interest?
-
- Answer:
-
- Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 12:00:09 +0200
- From: Martin Roth <roth@ips.id.ethz.ch>
- Organization: ETH Zurich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology)
-
-
- You send a mail to listserv@auvm.bitnet (NOT to emusic-l!!)
- containing the line:
-
- SUB EMUSIC-L <Your real name>
-
- That's all. In a few days (this seems to be done manually, so be
- patient!), you will get an intro mail and then all the discussion
- mails. To contribute, you can send a mail to emusic-l@auvm.bitnet,
- which is then automatically sent to all the subscribed people.
-
- To get removed from the list, again, do not send to the list,
- but to listserv@auvm.bitnet
-
- UNSUB EMUSIC-L
-
- Again, allow up to one week processing time (this is also done
- manually). By the way, your mail address is taken automatically from
- the return address of your mail, so be sure you don't have any fancy
- format there (user@machine.org.dom or something in that form will do
- well).
-
- If you want to know more, just ask listserv@auvm.bitnet (send mail):
-
- HELP
-
- Simple. Just try. EMUSIC-D should be similar, I suppose... listserv serves lot
- of other lists, too. Ah, yes, and you can get a list of the lists by sending
- a simple
-
- LIST
-
- in a mail, guess where... YES! to listserv@auvm.bitnet !
-
- -Martin
-
- _______________________________________________________________________
- _ Martin Roth Martin Roth ETHZ, ips, RZ F16
- |\ /|_) Mail: roth@ips.id.ethz.ch Sandacker 14 g 01/256 55 68
- | \/ | \ (Student of Computer CH-8154 Oberglatt p 01/850 32 75
- Science / Engineering) Switzerland (F-)emails welcome!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-